Chris Pile wrote:
Which way was the patch oriented?
I clearly just did a lousy job fitting the plug and hoped that wicking CA into the imperfections would be sufficient. Life has once again schooled me!
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| Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=53558 |
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| Author: | Bosco Birdswood [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Hi all, what’s the key to stopping repairs to solid body electrics from ghosting through the finish? I ballsed up when routing a Strat body around the bridge hole so glued in a repair patch that fit pretty nicely although you could see the glue line. I used titebond to glue it in and then finished with sanding sealer, urethane base and pre-cat nitro clear. I let it cure for a few weeks before wet sanding and the repair was just slightly ghosting but didn’t take much to flat off. After polishing though the body was in the sun (only about 17 degrees C) and then cooled to about 10 degrees. The repair ghosted really badly to the extent you could feel it with your fingers. I have had to rub back to base coat to flat it off. Brian Howard, I know you did a blog on that Strat you patched. Is the key just a nice tight fit to the patch? Wondering if I re-finish the area is it just going to recur? Thanks all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
You need to give the wood and layers of finish time to do any shrinking before going to the next step. Glueing a patch or plug will introduce moisture which takes several days to evaporate. |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
What kind of finish are you using, Bosco? |
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| Author: | Bosco Birdswood [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Chris Pile wrote: What kind of finish are you using, Bosco? Hey Chris, Pre-cat nitro clear and urethane base. Sealer is from the same line as the pre-cat Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Bosco Birdswood [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Barry Daniels wrote: You need to give the wood and layers of finish time to do any shrinking before going to the next step. Glueing a patch or plug will introduce moisture which takes several days to evaporate. Hi Barry, it was months between patching and applying finish so unfortunately I don’t think that’s the issue Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
What do you mean by ghosting? Assuming you mean blushing, 17 down to 10deg C is a bit cool. My guess is you have humidity issues during that cool off period. What is the RH like when you sprayed? If that's the case then Blush Eraser would probably work. |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Which way was the patch oriented? |
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| Author: | Bosco Birdswood [ Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
jfmckenna wrote: What do you mean by ghosting? Assuming you mean blushing, 17 down to 10deg C is a bit cool. My guess is you have humidity issues during that cool off period. What is the RH like when you sprayed? If that's the case then Blush Eraser would probably work. The issue was that you can see and feel the outline of the repair. I think the plug was not only not tight enough but not seated properly and has shifted. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Bosco Birdswood [ Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Chris Pile wrote: Which way was the patch oriented? I clearly just did a lousy job fitting the plug and hoped that wicking CA into the imperfections would be sufficient. Life has once again schooled me! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | bobgramann [ Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Maybe you need an imaginative pickguard design? |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Yeah, that gap can be problematic. You just feel the joint, or is the patch slightly proud? |
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| Author: | Bosco Birdswood [ Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Chris Pile wrote: Yeah, that gap can be problematic. You just feel the joint, or is the patch slightly proud? The patch wasn't proud but despite looking like it would glue up ok, the joint was suboptimal. I tried levelling it by wicking in super thin CA and levelling it but it continued to ghost through the finish, but then seemed to resolve itself even to the point of not really showing after I'd done the final polish. But then it got cold and not only could you see it but you could very noticeably feel it. Anyway, I've made a jig having read Brian Howard's excellent blog http://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2015/01/originally-published-in-guitarmaker.html on a similar style repair, and will endeavour to do a better repair second time around. It's not that I don't enjoy stripping off $150 of new paint off a guitar, you understand?! There's a general consensus that you can't do a repair without it ghosting, so veneering is the only safe bet but I see no reason a tight fitting insert would ghost any more than a body seam would. Brian's article seems to echo these. |
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| Author: | phavriluk [ Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
We all learn (and I've sure been to school) that CA is no shortcut to anything. Sometimes it's the adhesive that can do a job no other can, but let's please hold that thought. I've seen the effects of its lack of surface tension and invasive wicking enough to reassure myself to use it only as the right adhesive in the right place. I wish somebody awarded degrees for attending these schools of unwanted experiences. |
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| Author: | Bosco Birdswood [ Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
phavriluk wrote: We all learn (and I've sure been to school) that CA is no shortcut to anything. Sometimes it's the adhesive that can do a job no other can, but let's please hold that thought. I've seen the effects of its lack of surface tension and invasive wicking enough to reassure myself to use it only as the right adhesive in the right place. I wish somebody awarded degrees for attending these schools of unwanted experiences. Me too! I have the distinct advantage under such circumstances of not depending on this as a source of income, but having done one commission which encountered significant unrelated paint issues (which turned out to be a fault with the paint) I got an unwanted insight into what that feels like. Through all these mistakes I have learned to remind myself that I do this for fun, and it’s as much about the journey as it is the destination. Burning money on paint still irks me though! In other news, as well as hopefully learning how to successfully perform such repairs without ghosting, I also came with a new easy way to strip lacquer off a guitar with minimal effort! I saturated a t-shirt in lacquer thinner, put the guitar body in side the shirt and then put the shirt in a non-reactive plastic bag in order to slow the evaporation and left it for an hour or so. Worked a treat! Anyway, here’s my repair jig, copyright Brian Howard   Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Bosco, this might not be a comfort to you - but in 45 years at the bench, I can tell you there are occasional jobs and guitars that refuse to bend to our wills and talent. Just remember that for repairmen, there comes a time when it's no longer worth your time and mental energy. Sometimes you just have to call it good as it will get. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. |
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| Author: | Bosco Birdswood [ Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Chris Pile wrote: Bosco, this might not be a comfort to you - but in 45 years at the bench, I can tell you there are occasional jobs and guitars that refuse to bend to our wills and talent. Just remember that for repairmen, there comes a time when it's no longer worth your time and mental energy. Sometimes you just have to call it good as it will get. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Hey Chris, yeah I’m sure you’re right. This one is for my closest friend though and he has just sold his 59 Jazzmaster, 68 Jaguar and 63 Les Paul, because he didn’t think he’d ever play them after he has received my guitar. Be a shame to deliver him a POC under these circumstances! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Bosco Birdswood [ Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
So I’ve completed my patch. Now it’s just routing the bridge aperture again and praying the repair is good enough to not ghost. It’s not perfect but it’s not too far off. I’m not sure I would have been able to get it any better without risking chasing my tail.          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Now you're talking! |
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| Author: | phavriluk [ Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Just wonderful! |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
Nicely done [THUMBS UP SIGN] |
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| Author: | Bosco Birdswood [ Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stopping repairs from ghosting through finish |
 Nare a ghost to be seen! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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